Jonathan Hawkins: [00:00:00] Welcome to Founding Partner Podcast. I’m your host, Jonathan Hawkins. Today, we’ve got a guest that I’m really looking forward to speaking to someone that I’ve been following on LinkedIn for some time, really been enjoying her posts and the things she has to say.
Jonathan Hawkins: So looking forward to diving into her journey and sort of her thoughts on building a law firm.
Jonathan Hawkins: So today we’re talking to Alexis Johnson. She is a litigator. Maybe she does more than that sort of outside Detroit area.
Jonathan Hawkins: So Alexis, why don’t you introduce yourself? Tell us about your firm, what it is you do and and then we’ll dive in.
Alexis Johnson: Sure. So, thank you for having me here today. I’m super excited to be here. I’m Alexis Johnson, the founder of AFJ Law Group, which is a litigation and transactional based full service firm based out of Detroit, Michigan in Farmington Hills, actually, and we specialize in business and commercial real estate.
Alexis Johnson: So anywhere [00:01:00] from corporate compliance to contracts litigation, purchasing, leasing, commercial property, you know, shareholder member disputes, things like that, we probably will handle.
Alexis Johnson: And I started my firm almost four years ago as of the time of this podcast, after working in big law and business litigation department for several years.
Jonathan Hawkins: So it was that right after COVID started or right before?
Alexis Johnson: It was literally in between. So I started the practice in November of 2020 and in Michigan, at least we still had what was called a pause, which was not the same as the shutdown, but there were still a lot of limitations for going out in public or certain places that you could only go to in small groups.
Alexis Johnson: And so it was a little challenging because of, you know, you don’t have the same ability to go out and network or connect with people. But I also found it as an opportunity [00:02:00] because I could do a lot of things remote and keep a really low overhead, which I took advantage of for the first about year and a half.
Alexis Johnson: I didn’t have a physical office or anything. So pros and cons. And it did also get me a little bit more online. So like I started a YouTube channel and did a lot of social media marketing too.
Jonathan Hawkins: You know, the COVID thing it’s so hard. I mean, strange to think back on it, but you know, everybody was scared. I remember people that had firms we had this, you know, weekly zoom call and everybody’s like, what’s going to happen? But I also remember people were coming to me saying, hey, we’re going out to start our firm in the middle of it.
Jonathan Hawkins: And then some who had started right before and then it hit and it’s just mass confusion. You know, one of the good things that came out of it was, like you said, sort of this virtual digital acceleration for everybody, which has really been pretty nice. I like it at least.
Jonathan Hawkins: So, let’s talk about your firm. So is it just you, what kind of staff, attorneys, what do you have with you?
Alexis Johnson: So I’m the only attorney, I do [00:03:00] have relationships with other attorneys that I will partner with as a co counsel. Sometimes I have a really strong referral network.
Alexis Johnson: So, you know, if I get a call from someone in an area that I don’t handle even within like business or real estate, because those are very broad fields and I like to specialize in what I do.
Alexis Johnson: So I have a good referral network for that way. I have a full time admin, which is fairly recent and within the last year. So up until then, it was pretty much me doing everything, you know, I think some of that being, you know, obviously people look at bringing people on as an expense instead of an investment.
Alexis Johnson: So reframing that mindset, but also releasing a little bit of control and embracing delegation on things that I don’t necessarily need to do or not my strong suit to do.
Alexis Johnson: So, you know, the plan is to continue kind of growing and scaling. But right now it’s just me and my admin and, you know, attorneys that I’ll bring on as co counsel.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, it’s that first hire is always sort of the [00:04:00] most nerve wracking. But then, you know, most people you talk to, they’re like, Man, I should have done it sooner.
Alexis Johnson: That’s what everyone kept telling me. I met with a couple other through LinkedIn, which is how you and I connected. I’ve talked to a lot of small firm attorneys and they all were like, Alexis, how are you doing all this by yourself?
Alexis Johnson: Like you’re going to burn out, which is stuff that I tell my clients, but harder to tell me, and they’re like, you’re going to see the benefit once you bring someone on.
Alexis Johnson: And I am starting to see that a lot more now that, you know, we kind of have a groove going.
Jonathan Hawkins: And I’ll say, delegation, it’s really hard just generally it’s a skill. You gotta learn it. I’m still learning it. There’s some people that are experts at it, I hope to get there one day.
Jonathan Hawkins: But that’s just, you know, you’ll get there. But let’s go back. So, I think you grew up, your mom was a lawyer.
Jonathan Hawkins: So you grew up with a lawyer in the house. So is this, you know, was law something that was always on the table? Was this your destiny?
Alexis Johnson: If it was up to my parents, yes. If it was up to me no. So, my mom is a family law attorney. She’s been solo practitioner my entire life. She [00:05:00] had me and my twin brother when she was a 3L. So, right before taking the bar, she actually had to defer the bar exam because of our birthday. So sorry, mom.
Alexis Johnson: But so I grew up, you know, kind of seeing that strong role model with entrepreneurship and working in the law. And that was super admirable. But for me, I just didn’t have a strong desire to go into law. And I don’t know if some of that was just being rebellious because then my brother ended up going to law school.
Alexis Johnson: But I took a sort of different path. I worked in marketing and public relations, so I started my own consulting firm after graduating undergrad. And then I worked also for county government developing a public relations arm for their animal control and pet adoption department.
Alexis Johnson: And then, you know, I was started working on some of the animal cruelty investigations and prosecutions.
Alexis Johnson: And I realized how interested I was in, you know, that, and it kind of made me start to realize that maybe I was just being a little defiant and I hadn’t [00:06:00] considered all the different types of areas of law.
Alexis Johnson: So I did go back to law school walking away from all of that. So I was, you know, at a different age than people right out of undergrad which I do think helped having that background.
Alexis Johnson: But I made a commitment to myself and my mom that I was not going to work in family law, and I did not want to work for her practice. And I was not going to use it as like a plan B because I didn’t think that was fair to her either.
Alexis Johnson: So, you know, I just kind of took every opportunity I could in law school, ended up at an insurance defense firm my second year.
Alexis Johnson: And I clerked there, got offered a position, stayed on and I was like the only clerk in that office, but there were other offices. You know, I think we had 10 offices at that time, but they threw me in basically. So I was doing depositions. I was covering four or five motions every week for other attorneys.
Alexis Johnson: And I got a lot of experience that some of my colleagues weren’t getting at the larger firms because it’s more of a midsize firm.
Alexis Johnson: So, [00:07:00] after that, I was eventually kind of courted. I would say by a recruiter for a larger firm, and I wanted to change practice areas at that point, insurance defense was just not something that I felt very strongly about.
Alexis Johnson: I didn’t feel like I was actually litigating the cases, so I did take that opportunity and I learned a lot at the firm that I went to. But I think in the back of my mind, just growing up with my mom, you know, being a solo, my dad was an entrepreneur in the construction space.
Alexis Johnson: So I think it was always kind of ingrained in me and just having some of the businesses that I started prior to law school.
Alexis Johnson: It all kind of came full circle in 2020 when I was like, let’s go for it, you know.
Jonathan Hawkins: All right. I want to unpack a lot of that, you know, it’s funny, my dad was a lawyer and I was the same sort of like you. I was like, I’m not gonna be a lawyer. I’m gonna do my own thing, you know, but here I am, I ended up there. Never worked for him either.
Alexis Johnson: Lawyer for other lawyers.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, so before you went to law school, so you had your own business that was sort of like a marketing business.
Jonathan Hawkins: Is that what it was?[00:08:00]
Alexis Johnson: Yeah. So, I actually started two different types of businesses. The first one was more for like event promotions more for, like the hospitality industry. But then I kind of tweaked that into a consulting basis in the professional sphere. So, I had private clients. And then I also worked for the county.
Alexis Johnson: Like I mentioned, I started off at the county part time, which I wanted, I turned away like a full time job to do that because I wanted to develop that department.
Alexis Johnson: So I had clients that were like doctors or local festivals that I would come in and we would strategize, you know, what their goals were, you know, what their outreach was.
Alexis Johnson: And at the time social media was not super big. Like it was like my space era. So trying to convince some of these clients, Hey, you should pay me to like, start creating all of these accounts and these posts, and it’s a little outside of the box, but I think we’re going to see some value. There are some challenges to it, but there were also some people that were really interested in it.
Alexis Johnson: [00:09:00] And that was something that the County actually gave me a lot of leeway to do. And within a year they offered me a full time position.
Alexis Johnson: So I ended up kind of transitioning away from my clients, you know, from the consulting base into a position at the county up until law school basically.
Jonathan Hawkins: You know it’s funny when you look back on your life sometimes you can see the line of where you are now. So you know, you had the entrepreneurial thing before you even started your firm, clearly.
Jonathan Hawkins: The other thing is you learn how to market, you learn how to get clients, you learn how to sell, you learn how to convince them to, you know, hire you which is probably skills you still use today.
Jonathan Hawkins: What about the marketing skills that you sort of developed in you know, that non law business. Is this stuff you use today?
Alexis Johnson: I think so, a lot of people ask me about my marketing and my linkedin. I was actually at something last night and they were asking me like, oh, where did you like, what coach did you do work with or what training did you do for your linkedin content right now? And I hate to say it like I just [00:10:00] It’s kind of just something that I would say comes a little more naturally to me.
Alexis Johnson: But I think the big component is learning what the voice is for, you know, if I was working with a client for their business or for themselves, you know, what is the voice, what message do you want it to convey and how can you do that in a way that differentiates you from everybody else in the same field?
Alexis Johnson: And so I do think that it helps me now because I tried to do some marketing when I was at the firms that I was at. Actually during COVID, like everybody else, you know, I was at this firm and I’m like, Oh my God, like my clients are shut down. We don’t have billable work. I don’t know what to do.
Alexis Johnson: So I started doing YouTube videos kind of dissecting the executive orders that our governor was released but at the time I didn’t even realize that I was technically supposed to ask permission to do that so luckily, you know my Managing attorney was like [00:11:00] well, luckily the executive committee loves them, you know It’s not a problem, but it occurred to me how I would have to go up all these channels to ask permission to do these things.
Alexis Johnson: And by the time I probably got it, it wouldn’t really be relevant or I’d have a different thought about it. So I really embraced that when I started my own practice because I figured, you know, not every person is going to want to hire me, I might not be the right fit for them. There’s enough business in the world for that to exist.
Alexis Johnson: But the clients that I do want to work with me and hire me are clients that are going to resonate with my voice and being authentic in my practice.
Alexis Johnson: And that’s something that is really important to me that I try to convey in all of my marketing and social media messaging.
Jonathan Hawkins: Well, your LinkedIn stuff’s really good. Well, I do want to get in that and you know, I talked to a lot of people about this, you know Lawyers are scared. There’s they’re scared to narrow their niche. They’re scared to do this. They’re just skittish of everything.
Jonathan Hawkins: They’re scared to be themselves and you know in marketing as you know, a lot of it [00:12:00] is attracting the right people, but also repelling the wrong people.
Jonathan Hawkins: And it’s like you said, there’s plenty of work. Why not just work with sort of the people that you like and that like you? So, you know, I think that’s really important. And more law firms and lawyers should sort of embrace that instead of being scared of it.
Jonathan Hawkins: But yeah, so let’s go back. So, you were at the insurance defense firm. You got lots of good experience. You’re doing litigation there. Then you go to a bigger firm. Did you start to do stuff other than litigation there? When did you get into the transactional work?
Alexis Johnson: Yeah. So, I was still doing predominantly litigation, but a little bit more transactional. And because I was in the business litigation department, I was working with obviously much larger businesses, but with a variety of issues.
Alexis Johnson: And we all said some product liability you know, cases, which involved quite a bit of transactional work as well, but to be honest with you I didn’t have a ton of transactional experience when I started my practice It was something that I really felt strongly about developing like in the real estate and [00:13:00] construction sphere I think some of that probably be because of my dad.
Alexis Johnson: So, when I started my practice during that pause in COVID, I utilized that time not having any clients to get my real estate salesperson’s license, which people will ask me today, why don’t you just get the broker’s license?
Alexis Johnson: You’re an attorney, you already qualify for it. But for me, it was more about learning both sides of the transaction from the sales agent side. Because I already understood the legal aspect. It was kind of like a little refresher of real property and contract law.
Alexis Johnson: So I took that course past the, you know, exam, got my licensing. And then I started working with a lot of commercial real estate broker and agents, like, actually going to their offices, talking to the agents, understanding what types of issues come up in the transactions, assisting on some of those deals.
Alexis Johnson: And now I have very strong relationships with brokerages across Michigan where they’ll call me if they have a client, that something’s come up in a [00:14:00] transaction.
Alexis Johnson: So I kind of grew that experience just based on my desire to learn it. And I think that goes to say for any attorney, you know, I get Emails or calls from people that are like, how did you get into the construction industry? I want to do that and a lot of it’s just being willing to learn and also not having this inflated sense of self like I’m an attorney, I can just get a broker’s license I don’t need to understand, you know, the more I don’t want to say elementary but like more entry level area of whatever it is you’re trying to learn and like just being willing to learn from whatever level you’re at even if it’s below the attorney level because a lot of it is relationship base.
Jonathan Hawkins: You know, that’s another thing you said that I really like so I sort of did the same thing. I decided I wanted to learn this stuff. And, you know, when I started, I didn’t know where it was going to end up. It’s sort of changed a little bit over the years, but I just dove in and did it, and I tell people all the time, you know, I’m not one of those people that say follow your passion, but you definitely need to follow your interests [00:15:00] because you’re going to be with it a long time.
Jonathan Hawkins: And if you’re not going to be interested in it deeply, then you’re going to get bored or hate it or whatever.
Jonathan Hawkins: So, I recommend that to everybody, follow your interest you know, you’re interested in real estate, you went down that path. And so you mentioned when you started your firm that you didn’t have any clients.
Jonathan Hawkins: Is that correct? When you started that you had no clients?
Alexis Johnson: That is correct. I had no clients. I had a little bit of savings because I was, you know, I had bills. So I was like, I can’t just leave, you know, side kind of tried to plan a little bit in that way.
Alexis Johnson: But no, I had no clients and I didn’t take on any loans and I didn’t have any family support. I just decided I was going to go for it.
Alexis Johnson: And there was no option outside of succeeding.
Jonathan Hawkins: That’s awesome. So what was it that pushed you over? you got a, you know, probably a secure job, you’re probably making good salary. Why take the risk? Why go out there with no clients to do your own thing?
Alexis Johnson: So I think that [00:16:00] it’s a hard thing to say because I really benefited a lot from working at firms outside of graduation, even growing up with an attorney. I think I have an advantage just because I was used to going to court. I had met judges.
Alexis Johnson: I felt more comfortable than probably people that had never gone to court before, but working in those practices gave me a lot of mentorship and experience that I think is invaluable to my practice now, but deep down, I always saw this vision of myself that I felt like I was chasing and I couldn’t figure out how to do it.
Alexis Johnson: Like I saw this concept in my head and I knew that it was there, but I didn’t know how I was going to get there. And during COVID, especially at the firm that I was at, we would get calls from like the smaller businesses.
Alexis Johnson: And sometimes I would end up talking to them for, they got my number online somewhere and you know, I’m an associate, so I answer the phone, I’m not the partners are usually off doing a bunch of things or in trials or whatever, and I could just [00:17:00] tell speaking with them that they knew they weren’t going to be able to really afford the type of legal support that they needed at the firm, or they were just going to be like some other file, whereas this was like their life.
Alexis Johnson: You know, this isn’t just like another task on someone’s to-do list, and that’s not to say anything about the firm that I was at, you know, obviously, they have different resources for a much larger clients, but it really got to me, you know, I thought about it a lot and I don’t feel like the big law environment was for me.
Alexis Johnson: I am not someone that is, I’ve never desired climbing the corporate ladder and just kind of existing at the top or whatever that is. I’m always about trying to challenge myself to make sure that I feel like I’m doing what, not necessarily what I enjoy like you were saying but where I feel like I’m I have a purpose and where I feel like I’m being true to myself and my values.
Alexis Johnson: So it just kind of started to seem like an opportunity that I should try and I had some [00:18:00] idea of how I was going to generate revenue, which is something that I think a lot of attorneys do not talk about enough at the beginning. How do you make money? Because you know, everyone always likes to talk about the success, but I will be the first to tell people, you know, I knew that there are two ways that you can make money starting off as a solo with no clients.
Alexis Johnson: One is doing doc review and another is doing court-appointed work. And so I decided to do court-appointed work, representing criminal defendants that were indigent. I signed up for every single possible court that I could in my county. And I had no experience really in criminal law outside of taking criminal law.
Alexis Johnson: So I had no experience and some of the courts required me to come in and shadow other attorneys before I could even get on the list. And I wasn’t paid for that. But, you know, I did it and I wanted to do it because I felt like for me doing court-appointed work gave me, you know, I was still in court. I was still getting to use my trial skills and hone them and criminal law is very different than civil law.
Alexis Johnson: I mean, it sharpens [00:19:00] some skills that you aren’t used to using. And I worked with a lot of great attorneys that kind of took me on but also had civil practice areas. And so they said, Hey, you’re interested in real estate. If you get a case you want to take on but you’re unsure about something, call me, I’ll walk you through it. I don’t want any money for, I want to help you.
Alexis Johnson: And so I was able to generate some income from doing that, but also some, you know, intangible benefit by connecting with those attorneys who really kind of helped me out too. So I do think, and I don’t want to get on my soapbox about or anything, but I think it’s important for people to understand like if you’re starting a practice with no clients, your phone’s not going to ring.
Alexis Johnson: I think probably my phone did not ring for the first like two months. With like a client calling about something that I did. And you have to understand and be okay with that uncertainty, but there are options that I think other attorneys don’t like to talk about because it makes it sound like, Oh, you didn’t just start off in your first client. Wasn’t a multimillion-dollar company.
Alexis Johnson: That’s rare, that’s the exception. It’s [00:20:00] great if it happens, but there are ways that you can continue honing your skills and you know, bring in a little bit of money to make sure that you’re not too stressed out when the phone isn’t, ringing right away.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, I think everything you said there is so important. So, you know, there are options. I love that you were hungry and you just went and grabbed them. You know, you just went and did it. And like you said, you met all these people along the way that probably are a benefit to you and your practice now.
Jonathan Hawkins: I’m sure they send you stuff and you can, you can lean on them and maybe they can lean on you too. But yeah, so you went out, you had no clients, but you’re like, all right, I’m going to go do that kind of work to make sure I get some revenue in, and then you also, you decided what kind of practice you wanted to do civilly, right?
Jonathan Hawkins: So you wanted to do litigation and maybe some of this transactional work. So what types of things did you start to do to develop that or develop the pipeline of clients?
Alexis Johnson: So, the big thing I did was I started a YouTube channel and I basically, the purpose for those videos was I wanted to have like short, like four to [00:21:00] five-minute videos where a business owner could watch it and walk away with some level of information and it not just be an advertisement for my firm.
Alexis Johnson: So I kind of wrote out a list of a bunch of topics. And it was basically just me like this, you know, in front of the camera talking about something for a few minutes. Once I got a little better at editing videos, I added in like slides with text and all that. But I basically put a lot of focus on that and then once, you know, the pause was lifted, which was kind of like early 21, I started going to networking events.
Alexis Johnson: And most of the events that I would go to, I didn’t know anyone. So I would just walk in and say, Hey, you know, I’m Alexis. I’m a lawyer. I’m representing business owners. You know, I go to a lot of, like, networking events for business owners or in real estate. Kind of stay away from the lawyer ones at first, just because then if you’re the only lawyer, a lot of times people want your card and want to talk to you, but yeah, I mean, I would just go to a lot of [00:22:00] networking events.
Alexis Johnson: I basically would tell anyone I met, you know, that I was an attorney and what type of practice I had, but I also would say, Hey, you know, call me no matter what, if you need a different type of lawyer, because my mom and brother, family law attorneys. I have close relationships with criminal attorneys. I have, you know, attorneys that work in personal injury because the other part of my practice, my goal for my clients is to be a resource.
Alexis Johnson: So even if I can’t handle their problem, I can put them in touch with someone that can, and that I know will give them value for what they need. So that’s basically what I did. Just went out and shook a bunch of hands as much as I could.
Jonathan Hawkins: I love it, man. That’s what you gotta do. It really is what you gotta do. And, you know, I tell people back in the day, I would just, you know, I would go to these coffees, breakfast, lunch, whatever, with attorneys and accountants and whoever. And people, you know, I remember early on, I was like, well, how am I going to meet these people?
Jonathan Hawkins: You know, and it’s just, you just, every time I went to one, I asked him, is there anybody you can introduce me [00:23:00] to? And he just go down the chain and just kept going and kept going. And I remember there were days where there were some of those lunches and whatnot that were just painful.
Jonathan Hawkins: It’s just like, I need to get out of here. But I just kept doing it. And All of that work way back then still, you know, generation number one. I met a lot of cool people that I’m still friends with and they were for me work and I refer them work. So, you know, lawyers need to get out from behind their desk and get out there in person.
Jonathan Hawkins: I mean, zoom’s great, but you gotta be in person. I think, what do you think?
Alexis Johnson: And I think it’s harder for the bigger firms because as an associate, you go to these events, but like, you’re not really networking or anything. Although it’s interesting because as an associate, as soon as you become a partner, it’s like, okay, so you’re supposed to be generating business now, but there’s like this disconnect.
Alexis Johnson: But I think from my marketing background, I’m very used to just kind of going to things. I always figure you’ve nothing to lose. Like my favorite story about this is, I had applied for an internship [00:24:00] at the Michigan Supreme Court my 2L year, which was about an hour and a half away from where I live in Lansing to work for Justice Bridget Mary McCormick.
Alexis Johnson: And I didn’t hear anything for like a month. So my law school sends, you know, they have tickets to some gala and they said, Oh, she’s being honored there. And I was like, I want one of those tickets. So I went, I saw her, I went right up to her and I was like, hi, you know, you don’t know me, but I applied for your internship.
Alexis Johnson: I know that I live, you know, a little far away, but I’d really love to be considered. It would be an honor to work with you and learn from you and the community it’s not a problem to me. And she was probably like, who is this? But the next day her assistant emailed me and I had an interview and then I got the internship.
Alexis Johnson: And so I think just being willing to put yourself and I don’t say that to say every story like that is going to be a success story or whatever, but being willing to put yourself out there and also accept that maybe it doesn’t turn out the way you want, like maybe it wasn’t supposed to, but you never know if you don’t try.
Alexis Johnson: And I think if you’re going [00:25:00] to have your own practice or business, you got to be willing to put yourself out there and humble yourself a little bit and, you know, show that you’re really interested. Especially now everybody kind of, you know, hides behind like the messaging or email and those get lost in the flux.
Alexis Johnson: And I’m not saying show up at somebody’s door or whatever, but you know, you got to differentiate yourself and show your intent that you’re really interested.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, I agree with that. So let’s go back to your YouTube channel. So is that still up and, you know, I know some attorneys have used that to great success. Is it still sort of a thriving asset, I’ll call it for you, that generates interest and leads? Do you still add videos to it?
Alexis Johnson: So I kind of stopped adding videos once I got more busy. I just recently added a video, but before that, the last video is probably about two years ago, but I still get calls from people who are, you know, they Googled something, they found my YouTube. And the only issue is a lot of times they’ll [00:26:00] call and they’re outside of Michigan.
Alexis Johnson: And they’re like, I want to hire you. I can tell that, you know, my issue. And I’m like, I can’t help you. You’re not in the state. So I would like to try to expand my out-of-state network a little bit more. I have a couple attorneys I know in different states, but that’s the only thing I would do.
Alexis Johnson: I mean, I do feel like it’s still generates some interest and I do have plans to kind of revive it, but then that’s the flip side. Once you start getting busy, it’s harder to maintain all of that effort without help. And even with help, I’m very against having marketing that just seems like, you know, like an advertisement.
Alexis Johnson: So, I think it’s like in your field too, it’s very relationship based. You can’t have like a, just a general boilerplate ad that’s going to attract the types of clients because they’re looking to build a relationship that, you know, when they’re trusting you with their business. Whether a legal practice or otherwise they want to know the person behind the curtain, so to [00:27:00] speak.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, you just hit on two big challenges that I personally have gone through and that I’ve seen others. You start to get, I mean, early on, you’re not that busy. So you have all this time to do this stuff and energy. And then all of a sudden you’re so busy, you don’t have time, but you got to keep doing it because you’re going to slow down at some point.
Jonathan Hawkins: So how do you balance that? And then the second part is, especially with the LinkedIn and the social media, it’s you know, I write all my stuff. It’s all me. I have never outsourced that to anybody. And I’m not sure, I mean, there are definitely things you can delegate. I’m not sure that’s one of them that you can effectively delegate, at least not in my opinion.
Jonathan Hawkins: Because part of it is it’s my personality. It’s my thoughts, etc. And you cannot really replicate that. Somebody else maybe could get close.
Alexis Johnson: Right.
Jonathan Hawkins: But it’s just not the same. So, it’s hard to do. So I’m with you.
Alexis Johnson: I agree with you. Yeah. And I’m the same way, I write all my LinkedIn stuff. One thing I will say that I have embraced is repurposing some of my content [00:28:00] and tweaking it.
Alexis Johnson: So like if I wrote a post a year and a half ago, taking it and maybe retweaking where I’m at now and then posting it again.
Alexis Johnson: I have done that in periods where it’s slower or I mean, where it’s, where I’m busier or where maybe I’m not as, I’m not feeling as, you know, great. It’s harder for me to be as creative, like for whatever reason. I have done that, but I’ve never had somebody write content for me, and I don’t really plan to for the same reasons that you just said.
Jonathan Hawkins: You know, that’s huge. I repurpose everything. And I did this. I had this post on LinkedIn early in the year, maybe March or April, and it went viral for LinkedIn. It went viral. I mean, it got it got over a million impressions. It was huge. I mean, I thought the algorithm broke is the weirdest thing ever.
Jonathan Hawkins: And then all my engagement fell off a cliff. And I’ve just been sort of I’ve heard that across the board, everybody’s feeling that. And so the other day, like last week, I was like, man, screw it. I took that same post [00:29:00] verbatim and just posted it again. And it did really well again. I was like, that’s all not as well as the first time.
Alexis Johnson: Yeah, that’s all you need.
Jonathan Hawkins: And so, the people that saw it the first time, maybe they remembered it, maybe not.
Jonathan Hawkins: So, it’s, you know.
Alexis Johnson: I always think about that too. Like that was why I was hesitant to do it. Cause I’m like, what if someone sees it and they’re like, Oh, she’s just copying or stuff. But it’s also like, so, you know, like if, I mean, there are other people that didn’t see it, that may get value out of it. And your posts always pull me in because they’re like thinking of starting a law firm here, things you need to know.
Alexis Johnson: And I’m like, what do I need to know? Even though I started one, like, what do I need to know? I’m clicking the down, you know, the drop box or whatever.
Jonathan Hawkins: And the other cool thing about leveraging the content and all that. So, I really want to write a book, and I’ve got the outline. But you’re sort of like, do I want to sit down for three months, and just really write it out, and just do only that or do I say, wait a second, I can write this section, it can be a video, [00:30:00] it can be a few posts, it can be all these things, and then it’ll just be a section in the book, so you get multiplier effects for that one piece of content, or one prep of content, you can sort of use it everywhere.
Alexis Johnson: People that resonate with your content. I get people that come up to me all the time and say, and I don’t even know if they like my stuff or not. You know, I don’t always see, but last night somebody came up to me and said something about a post I wrote.
Alexis Johnson: So, when you’re resonating with people like that, sometimes I think it’s important to repurpose it in, you know, maybe not just in another post, but like you said, in a book or in a video or something because, you know, people perceive messages differently and you don’t want to waste that messaging just because you used it in one way, another time.
Jonathan Hawkins: And then I think I saw a post of yours or something that each social media platform has its own personality, its own sort of rules of the road, whatever. And so, you know, what you might post on LinkedIn is not going to be the same thing you would post on [00:31:00] Instagram or whatever. So what other social media are you on and how do you approach the different formats?
Alexis Johnson: So I have an Instagram and a Facebook, but they just post the same thing. They like to auto-post to each other. And then I have the YouTube, which is slowly coming back to life. But my main form of social media is LinkedIn.
Alexis Johnson: It’s what I hold closest to me because like you, I write my own content and I try to write content that I wish I had seen, as a new attorney, as a law firm owner, as just a human being, as a business owner, but I don’t find that messaging can convey the same way in like Facebook or Instagram.
Alexis Johnson: So when I do those posts, it’s more, you know, something specific to like a legal area, like, you know, different types of commercial leases, or if I’m at an event, I’ll do a post like that just to kind of show that community engagement.
Alexis Johnson: I’ve seen some social media done really well on [00:32:00] Instagram with like reels and videos. I used to have a TikTok that I posted a lot on, which was more for fun. It was like me versus OC, like kind of making fun of the legal field and myself. I’ve gotten away from that too, but you know, I think videos are probably the way to go if you’re posting on like Instagram, TikTok, even Facebook, or that more general type of content, whereas like the longer paragraph, like monologue sort of style just doesn’t seem to translate the same, but it has a different audience, like on Instagram, I think it’s going to be younger people or they’re just scrolling.
Alexis Johnson: They’re not looking to read. Whereas LinkedIn, you get people that are really dialed in and really feel connected to the people that they’re following. So that’s just been my experience, but I feel like I’m still kind of figuring it out too.
Jonathan Hawkins: Well, it’s fun. I mean, and everybody out there, I highly encourage them to follow you on LinkedIn. I really like your content. Yeah, there’s a lot of mindset, I’ll call it [00:33:00] mindset type posts and you know, that kind of stuff resonates with me. Like for example, I came across one the other day.
Jonathan Hawkins: It’s a quote, I don’t know if this is a quote that you wrote or that you found. It’s you know, when writing the story of your life, don’t let someone else hold the pen. And that just hit me.
Jonathan Hawkins: So what? What is tell me about that? Why don’t you expand on that one?
Alexis Johnson: So sure. So a lot of times I keep in my notes app quotes that I’ll hear, you know, if I’m at a conference, even sometimes on a TV show or something that I read in a book or online. If it’s someone where I can locate the author, I will put their name. If it’s not, I just put it as a quote because I don’t want to make it like it was just, I originated it.
Alexis Johnson: So that was just something that I saw actually in someone’s Instagram post that I follow, but I couldn’t find like an author for it. I’m sure there is probably, if we Google, there’s probably four people that will say they said it. But what I like is, it’s a reminder that at any moment, you know, you have control of your life [00:34:00] and the circumstances that are happening to you, whether they’re amazing, whether they’re good or bad.
Alexis Johnson: And I learned that I read the success principles by Jack Canfield, probably like 15 years ago now. And I remember the first chapter being like, you’re responsible for everything that’s happened to your life up until now. And I was like, No, how is that possible? There is XYZ that happened. And then I really started thinking about it.
Alexis Johnson: And I realized that everything that’s happened is an outcome of decisions, choices, or reactions that I’ve had to experience in my life.
Alexis Johnson: And so I think that quote is a good reminder that no matter where you’re at right now, you hold the pen on what happens next. And sometimes that can be really hard to accept if you’re in a not really good spot.
Alexis Johnson: And I get that I’ve been there, but it also gives you some freedom and creativity to say, well, where can I go now? Where can I go next? What can I learn from this right now about decisions that I’ve made that put me here? Because that gives you control. If you feel like everything’s [00:35:00] happening to you, then you don’t have any control and that’s a really helpless feeling.
Alexis Johnson: But if you recognize the control that you do ultimately have on your life, then it gives you a lot of power. And you can say, Hey, I don’t, today this is changing. This is different. So that’s kind of what I got out of that.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, I love that. I have a similar thought. You know, it’s I can blame the world and everything out there about all these things, and there’s plenty of things that I could blame it on, but at the end of the day, it’s about how, you know, sort of the stoic philosophy, it’s sort of, I can interpret it one way or the other, and really, it’s like, I can only control what I control, so I want to focus on that and see what happens, right?
Alexis Johnson: When you said stoic stoicism, I love books you know, Marcus Aurelius, love the Ryan Holiday book that I find that is a very.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, so it’s, you know, as you look back, you’ve been doing this for four years, you started with no clients, and you know, you’ve built a pretty good firm, you’re busy, so busy you can’t [00:36:00] do all the marketing you used to do. You know, as you sort of look back on it, what do you think, sort of one or two things maybe you could point to say, alright, these have been important for me to get to where I am?
Alexis Johnson: I would say being willing to reach out and connect and communicate with people, ask for help. Don’t be afraid to do that. Don’t be afraid to put yourself out there in that way. And really honestly, just perseverance because any small business owner, I’m sure you know, there are some months where it’s like really slow, you know, and then some months where it’s so jam in that you’re like, Oh my God, how am I going to do all this?
Alexis Johnson: I need an extra day in the week, that’s how I feel right now. But you know, a couple of weeks from now, it’ll probably be, you know, okay, we need more people coming in.
Alexis Johnson: So having that perseverance to get through those periods, being an entrepreneur, you know, it’s very glamorized, especially if you look on like Instagram, it’s very like, Oh, I woke up at 5 am, I did a meditation.
Alexis Johnson: I worked out for an hour and then I had 20 meetings and then I went to [00:37:00] this networking event and, I made $10,000 today doing it. And it’s like, that’s not the reality. Sometimes it’s like you wake up and you know, you don’t have something to do right away and you’re feeling a little like, Oh, how do I do this?
Alexis Johnson: You know, but then you start thinking about things you, you know, you can do, or that you needed to do that you put aside when you were too busy. So having that perseverance mindset really thinking is the big thing, but also recognizing if you know, it’s not for you. I think there’s like this big sense, there’s a lot of stigma in the practice of law, some of which are like, you’re a failure.
Alexis Johnson: If you go out on your own, you end up going back to a firm. Some of it, if you leave a firm to start your own practices, it’s like you couldn’t hack it, you know, so having that perseverance and sense of self that you maintain the most over everything. The other thing I guess I would say is to have your, and I know that’s three things, but your boundaries.
Alexis Johnson: So for me, you know, I know I said I did court-appointed work, but when it came to what I was trying to build my practice on, [00:38:00] I very early on decided I was not going to just take all cases.
Alexis Johnson: Like, I remember doing a conference and someone said something like, Oh, are you going to do toaster law? And I was like, what is that?
Alexis Johnson: They’re like anything that pops up. And I was like, no, I’m not going to do toaster law. So I did turn down, you know, calls, sometimes people would call me about things that, you know, were way outside of my practice area, or I had no interest in trying to learn. And it would be like a potentially really big case or client.
Alexis Johnson: And I remember some of my friends being like, why are you turning this down? You don’t have this huge roster, like why, you know, but for me, it was important to hold myself out as a specialist and to really only take the types of cases that I wanted. And obviously, you know, refer people out if I’m able to.
Alexis Johnson: But, you know, not to compromise on those boundaries and, and rules for myself. So I think that’s something that has helped me out a lot because now I am known as a specialist in these areas and [00:39:00] I’m sought for that, but it took some time to get there. And it’s still tempting. You know, I get calls about cases.
Alexis Johnson: It sounds super interesting, but I’m like, there’s a huge learning curve. It’s not really fair to the potential client. And it’s not something that I even want to start integrating in my practice. So maintaining that and not just being so focused on making money right now, but building a successful foundation for the future.
Alexis Johnson: I think that’s probably the biggest thing I would say.
Jonathan Hawkins: That last point is so important. I know early on in a firm, you’re paranoid that you need money and you’re paranoid that you’re not going to get enough work to, and so you have this temptation to take anything that comes in the door. And I get it, you know, your cashflow, but it’s very important to stay strong like you have been able to.
Jonathan Hawkins: Because there’s a lot of that you said, you know, you’ll spend all this time to ramp up to figure it out. So your effective sort of I guess hourly rate if you will, is going to be much lower because you spent all this can’t charge the client the chances that you screwing something up and committee malpractice [00:40:00] start to go way up.
Jonathan Hawkins: And then the other thing is, you know if you’re jumping around all these different things, every time you never really become the expert in any area, cause you’re constantly learning something new. And then by the time you wrap around to that thing, and maybe you’ve forgotten it, so that’s, I think really important.
Jonathan Hawkins: I’m glad you’ve been able to do that. So that’s awesome.
Alexis Johnson: I think it just goes back to, and I see this a lot on LinkedIn. I don’t, I’m sure you follow Jonathan Pollard but he talks about the scarcity versus abundance mindset, which is a mindset thing. But I think if you’re always thinking, well, what if this is the only call, you know, this month, or, you know, what if this is it?
Alexis Johnson: Then you’re more likely to cling on, whereas if you just kind of let go, and you trust that you’re going to always have more opportunity. You will, there’s always going to be other work. There’s always going to be other referrals. If you send a really big case to someone else and they do a great job, they get a great result, they’re going to remember you when they get a call for someone that needs a business attorney or real estate attorney.
Alexis Johnson: [00:41:00] So it kind of pays itself forward, but I think you can’t think in that scarcity You know, you gotta be focused on the fact that there’s always more coming.
Jonathan Hawkins: You know, it’s funny. I was talking to somebody yesterday, a non-lawyer, and we were just talking about business and you hear about, you know, the deal of a lifetime is on your desk, and if you’ve been around long enough, you see that happens like at least once every year or two, you see the deal of a lifetime.
Jonathan Hawkins: So it’s okay if you miss this one, right? You want to do the right one. It’s the Warren Buffett thing, he says, you know, wait for the fat pitch. You don’t have to swing at everything. Wait for the one that’s right down the middle. And then swing.
Alexis Johnson: Right. And sometimes the client may think their case is this amazing case, and it’s really not, but you can be blinded by hearing certain facts or amounts, you know, dollar amounts at issue or whatever. And instead of thinking about ways, is this something that I’m competent to actually handle or that I have the capability of learning about, or, you know, like you said, to those malpractice concerns, you’re thinking more about how much money it could help you know, [00:42:00] with the firm, which is a natural thought.
Alexis Johnson: But again, you know, for me, I look at how to solve the potential client’s issue. And sometimes that means it’s not me that’s solving it, you know, and having that wherewithal.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. So looking back, you know, four years into your firm, is there anything that, you know, maybe you wish you had done sooner or maybe something you wish you maybe hadn’t done at all?
Alexis Johnson: I wish I had considered having more support help like with answering the phones and things like that because I think some of that is like a control thing for me. I don’t like releasing that control. I want to be the person that’s talking, you know doing the intake and scheduling but I do think that sometimes I might have missed certain calls because I was just too busy and, you know, you have the best intentions, but by the end of the day, a million other things pop up.
Alexis Johnson: And, you know, by the time you do call them back, they may have found someone else or whatever. And I think that having [00:43:00] that helps with the support. Would have been bringing that on sooner and I feel like I should have known this because everyone I talked to kept saying you should hire someone and I said that to my clients.
Alexis Johnson: You need to hire people. You delegate and then I’m not practicing what I preach.
Alexis Johnson: So, I do think that is probably important. And then, maybe just continuing education. I mean, I talked a lot about how I developed a practice area, but I do think that it’s important to maintain, you know, like you said, the laws change a lot staying up to date on various things. I do that a lot now, but I think at first, I was just so focused on trying to get my name out there, get the phone ringing, and learn this new practice area I wanted to bring in.
Alexis Johnson: That I wasn’t thinking as much about making sure that I’m up to date on things. Unfortunately, it’s not like I missed anything, but I do think that’s something that probably a lot of solos and small firm attorneys in particular overlook, because it’s like, there’s only so much time in a day you’re working on your cases and then thinking about doing a CLE.
Alexis Johnson: It’s [00:44:00] like, you know, and in my state, we don’t, they’re not required. So it’s not we have to do them. Yeah. For the real estate license you do, but for your law license, you don’t.
Alexis Johnson: So, now I do a lot of it regularly and it’s just kind of comes up with various organizations that I’m involved in, but I do think that’s probably something I could have thought about just making sure my foundation at the beginning was sound.
Alexis Johnson: And I’m fortunate that I didn’t have an issue, but I do think that’s something that comes up a lot for people.
Jonathan Hawkins: So every lawyer out there knows that practicing law can be very stressful. Growing and running a flop. Growing, yeah, exactly. And then add on top of that, growing and starting and growing a firm. You know, add on those layers of stress.
Jonathan Hawkins: So, how do you manage that? Do you have any routines? Do you have any go-to activities or things that you do that sort of get you de-stressed or sort of get some of that off?
Alexis Johnson: So, I think I utilize exercise a lot. I used to be a marathon runner. Now I do [00:45:00] cycling classes, weights. I’ll do that. I work out fairly regularly, but I think for me, the biggest thing is doing something that uses the complete opposite side of my like analytical brain.
Alexis Johnson: So, I will try to have, like, creative days, and I’m not, like, artistic by any means, but I have the painting by numbers kit, where the whole painting is numbered, and you just have to line up the colors with it. I just got into, like, flower arranging.
Alexis Johnson: So doing something that requires me to not be thinking, because if I’m at the gym, I’m still thinking about a case, you know, I’m on the stair master. I’m still thinking, okay, I got to get an extension on X, Y, Z, you know, but if I’m doing something creative, I’m just focusing on the detail and making sure that it looks nice and the color organization.
Alexis Johnson: So I found that taking time out to have those creative outlets, like either during the painting or flower arranging or, you know, things like that has been really helpful for me. And I also like going for walks when it’s not cold. [00:46:00] So for like, you know, the summer and spring in Michigan.
Alexis Johnson: But even then I still find myself thinking about cases or a lot of times I’ll write my LinkedIn posts while I’m on a walk, which is great, but it’s not exactly walking away from the stress of the workday.
Alexis Johnson: So for me, it’s like doing something that shuts that part of my brain off almost by force has helped a lot.
Alexis Johnson: That’s interesting. I’ve never really thought about that. That’s really insightful. You know, I exercise every day. Some of my best ideas come when I’m walking or running. I don’t really run anymore, but yeah, so I get you there.
Alexis Johnson: It’s just your mind can get, you know, But you know, I still identify as a drummer, even though I don’t really drum much anymore.
Alexis Johnson: I used to but when I do get into the drums every now and then I’ll get into that, you know, I’m focusing on that and you’re right. I’m not thinking about anything else. I’m just thinking about that. So yeah, I might have to, I might have to get back into that.
Alexis Johnson: Yeah. Make a few, you know, I don’t know, solos or songs. Do you have a drum set like in your house?
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, I do.
Alexis Johnson: Oh my gosh.[00:47:00]
Jonathan Hawkins: So, yeah, I’m gonna have to get back on
Alexis Johnson: that.
Alexis Johnson: Yeah, no excuse not to.
Jonathan Hawkins: Well, it’s gotta get the time. So, you mentioned you used to be a marathon runner. I think you’ve run, what, five marathons?
Alexis Johnson: Yes.
Jonathan Hawkins: That’s impressive.
Alexis Johnson: Three of them were like in law school and like a week after I got sworn in.
Jonathan Hawkins: Impressive. So, you don’t really do that anymore?
Alexis Johnson: No, you know, as you get older, you learn that running’s not super great for you. My mom used to always be worried about my knees and luckily I never had any real injury, but I kind of used running as like a stress reliever in law school. And running marathons, you know, you have to train. So I’d be running anywhere from like 40, to 50 miles a week. And I think I just eventually got burned out.
Alexis Johnson: So now, you know, I like doing the long-distance cycling. It’s much easier on your joints and you can kind of zone out a little bit. But yeah, marathon running, the last one I do is in 2017 and I don’t think that I will do anymore.
Jonathan Hawkins: You know, I really like the long-distance running. I can’t because of my back. [00:48:00] It’s, the pounding hurts it. But,
Alexis Johnson: Yeah, it takes a lot out of you. All of that, you know, even trail running, cause then you have to worry about like, not, you know, tripping over something or, I mean,
Jonathan Hawkins: Tripping an ankle.
Alexis Johnson: So there’s challenges, yeah.
Jonathan Hawkins: But you know, there was something about the willpower. I love the challenge because you hit that point where you’re like, I just want to quit. And you’re like, no, just go a little longer than this. Just this, play in your mind. And I really liked that and then overcoming that desire to quit. So I do miss that. Maybe I’ll try the cycling too.
Jonathan Hawkins: So let’s shift again. So here’s another mindset question for you. So, you know, we read about all these people that are so successful and, you know, they’ve built these firms, they’ve built these companies. And you know, we want to do that too, and we’re trying to do that, but, you know, for me, I know, and probably everybody, self-doubt starts to creep in.
Jonathan Hawkins: And so, I guess the first thing is, you know, do you encounter that, and then sort of how do you address it?
Alexis Johnson: Oh yeah. I think self [00:49:00] doubt and like imposter syndrome are my two downfalls. And I try to talk about that on LinkedIn just so people, you know, see that it’s not this like stigmatized uncommon occurrence.
Alexis Johnson: I think the main thing for me that helps is, when I’m thinking usually you feel that way when you’re comparing yourself right to like another company or you know, maybe like my best friend has her own law firm and sometimes we’ll be talking and she’ll be like Oh, we had a great month.
Alexis Johnson: We made you know x whatever and I’m over here like my month does not look like that. You know, sometimes it’s like that but remembering no matter what that every person, you know, even in the most large successful business, I mean, I look at Apple, you know, Steve Jobs started off in a garage. You know, putting some stuff together.
Alexis Johnson: It wasn’t just like he overnight became this multi-million, maybe billion-dollar company. And it’s the same for any business.
Alexis Johnson: So everyone started from somewhere and you [00:50:00] can’t compare yourself to where that person at is that even like my best friend who started her practice long before me, you know, we can’t compare ourselves.
Alexis Johnson: It’s different, you know, industries, different business length, different operational, different adversity to risk, which is a big thing. If you’re less risk at first, maybe you’re willing to take out loans and hire people, you know, sooner, or, you know, get, you know, an office space or product development or whatever you need to do.
Alexis Johnson: So there’s so many different competing factors with how someone else is doing compared to you. And I think if you can remember that when you’re feeling down, it’s easier for you to realize that you’re feeling down because you’re comparing yourself to something that’s incomparable, you know, and in terms of the imposter syndrome, I just keep faking it until I make it.
Alexis Johnson: I’m a big proponent of affirmations. You know, in mindset. So, I just will be like, well, of course, this is going to happen for me. Of course, I belong in this environment. Now I [00:51:00] don’t struggle with that as much, but you know, going to things where you don’t know anyone and you’re walking in like, hi, you should hire me that can be really hard for anybody.
Alexis Johnson: So it’s like, of course, I, belong here. Of course, you know, this client wanted to hire me. Why wouldn’t they? You know, almost like, I don’t want to say delusional, because that’s like a whole, the delulu, whatever. But I think it’s just challenging those thoughts, but also being okay with them.
Alexis Johnson: I read in a book speaking about stoicism that with emotions if you think of them as like waves, you know, if you try to fight, if you’re in waves, you’re going to drown, you’re going to tire yourself out, but if you just relax and acknowledge this is just a chemical reaction in your brain, it’s going to pass.
Alexis Johnson: Then you’re more likely to get through it and you’re also going to be more analytical about it. Like, okay, or logical. Like, okay, this is just a feeling it’s going to pass versus I shouldn’t feel like this. This is wrong to feel like this. It’s natural to have doubt, especially when you’re taking a big risk, like having a [00:52:00] practice or a business.
Alexis Johnson: I mean, that’s, you know, but at the end of the day, and I always look at it like this, if I’m going to bet on anything, I’m betting on myself. I’m not betting on big law firms who could care. You know, I might be the Mike Ross to them, you know, if you’re a suits person, but as soon as I leave, they’re going to find five other associates that are willing to do what I’m doing and maybe more.
Alexis Johnson: You know, so if I’m going to bet on anything, I’m betting on myself and that doesn’t mean I don’t still struggle or that sometimes those thoughts don’t, you know, win for the day, the hour, the week, whatever.
Alexis Johnson: But as long as you know, you’re going to get through them and get over it. I think that’s what counts is like that perseverance to do that.
Jonathan Hawkins: Well, I think betting on yourself, anybody, betting on yourself is probably the best bet you can make. I mean, the best return on investment. I’ve ever made is investing in myself. I mean, every single time. And so I think that’s huge.
Alexis Johnson: I just wanted to add to like, is reframing what a win [00:53:00] is? Because if it’s just about making the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time possible, probably being at a big firm makes the most sense, you know, but if the win is having more time for your family, your kids, yourself, having better health, having better relationships, having more autonomy over your life and your practice, maybe that’s the win until the money part catches up and maybe it never catches up to that, or maybe it surpasses it or whatever, but it’s reframing what a win is to you.
Alexis Johnson: And when you’re comparing to a lot of these bigger businesses, their win might be different. It might just be as many dollars as we can get in the door every day.
Alexis Johnson: Whereas somebody like me, my win might be providing really great tailored representation to promote small business ownership in Michigan, because I think that’s more important than, you know, the larger corporations. You know, like promoting that disparity so it’s just reframing the wind too.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yes. Okay. So for you what’s the best [00:54:00] part of being an entrepreneur or owning your own firm?
Alexis Johnson: I think the best part and the worst part is the autonomy and the freedom to kind of make decisions, but sometimes it’s hard decisions that you have to make. You know, like at first when I started off, I worked in a lot of newer business owners, I really like that because again, promo is one of my goals. But now, you know, I only have so much capacity and you know, I’m growing up a practice.
Alexis Johnson: So, you know, more established, elevated businesses. And I can’t assist as many of the newer businesses because I just don’t have the time or capacity to do so.
Alexis Johnson: So, it’s like a good thing and a bad thing to have the control and make those decisions. But I would say having the autonomy and, you know, there are some days where, you know, I’ll schedule where I don’t have something in the morning so I can go for a two-hour walk. I could never do that working at a firm.
Alexis Johnson: You know, even if I went for a walk before I started, it would be like, well, why aren’t you checking [00:55:00] your email first? You know, or if something came up so having that flexibility, which, you know, sometimes you can’t have that, but having the ability to create that when you can is I think really important.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. Okay. So you’re the captain of your own ship, which is great. So as you’re sitting here today and you’re looking out into the future, what vision do you see? Where do you want to take your firm and your life moving forward?
Alexis Johnson: So, I see myself growing a little bit more. I never wanted to be like a large firm, but I would like to expand some practice areas by eventually maybe, you know, bringing on some other attorneys and like IP or tax, you know, kind of complimentary areas to what I practice. So, you know, growing and maybe another business attorney or, you know, or two.
Alexis Johnson: So like maybe small to medium, but not like huge, just being able to assist business owners on a more holistic level, like from soup to nuts kind of thing. And personally, you know, I really would like to keep communicating my message to [00:56:00] people in terms of being authentic in the legal practice or as a business owner and embracing vulnerability, embracing, you know, talking about the challenges that we all face, but everybody kind of sweeps under the rug or feels like they have bravado and promoting.
Alexis Johnson: You know, going out there and, and taking a risk on yourself, if that’s the right move for you.
Jonathan Hawkins: So, have you been invited to do speaking on these sorts of topics?
Alexis Johnson: I have been on a couple panels. I’m in an organization called Crew Detroit, which is commercial real estate women. And I was on a panel mind your business. So it was women business owners talking about, you know, their trials and tribulations. And I’ve done some panels for the state bar. So, you know, it’s something that I’ve done a little bit.
Alexis Johnson: You know, I’m always happy to do more if someone wants me to share like my story and hopefully can inspire, motivate other people.
Jonathan Hawkins: Well, I think you should put together a talk. I think you’ve got a lot of good things to say. I think people would like to hear that, so [00:57:00] you should put one together. At least frame out the topic and then go pitch it. I think it would be a good talk, so.
Alexis Johnson: Well, that means a lot coming from you. I appreciate that.
Jonathan Hawkins: So, you’ve been very kind to spend today with me. We’re getting towards the end here, so, you know, if people want to find you again, they should go find you on LinkedIn and follow you. I really like your stuff. Where else can they find you? What’s the best way to find you?
Alexis Johnson: So LinkedIn, and also I have like I said, Facebook and Instagram, and that’s just at AFJ law group or you can search my name, Alexis F Johnson, and usually pulls up anything with me because no one else’s middle name starts with an F.
Alexis Johnson: So, yeah, I mean, or go to my website, AFJLawGroup.com.
Jonathan Hawkins: We can imagine, you can have so many things for that F, you know, for the right situation, we can.
Alexis Johnson: People like guessing what it is, but they rarely are correct.
Jonathan Hawkins: So we’ll just leave that mystery there.
Alexis Johnson: Yeah, you can send me your guess.[00:58:00]
Jonathan Hawkins: Well, also, Alexis, I appreciate you coming on today. And you know, I like what you’ve done. And I like just keep betting on yourself, right?
Alexis Johnson: That’s right. And thank you for having me here. It’s been great to kind of have a dialogue with you a little bit more than just on LinkedIn.
Jonathan Hawkins: I appreciate it.
